schuyler

Avanti II engine

35 posts in this topic

I have a 1963 Avanti and attend many local car shows. Because I am usually the only Avanti in attendance I get a lot of questions as I am sure you do. Many times the questions are confusion over the history of the Studebaker Avanti and the Avanti II. People always insist that the Avanti came with a Corvette motor. Now we know that the 63-64 motors were Studebaker. But the Avanti II came with a GM engine. I have always been under the understanding that the Avanti II had either a 305 or 307 Passenger car engine? I can't believe that Corvette would share their engine with a competitor even their anemic late 70's and early 80's motors. Your insight and thank you!

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Roughly;

66-69 Avanti II used Corvette 327/300 engines / 70 - 71 used the 350/300 (Corvette) engine, 72 - 77 used the 400 (non Corvette) engine  - 78 -? used 350/? -  somewhere around  the early 80's the 305 engine came into play, both HO and standard version.  The 305 was used extensively afterwards.. 

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As said above about engine size. There was never an issue with selling Chevrolet V-8's to Studebaker and then Avanti. The 65-66 Canadian built Studebaker's were powered by Chevy engines from the Canadian Chevrolet Plant and then so was Avanti in the non-Stude years with U.S. assembled engines.

My guess is they weren't considering those vehicles as significant enough competition to be concerned. Chevrolet engines were into any number of cars back then including Checker at some point.

It's also my understanding that other than the very early years there was little to differentiate a Chevrolet V-8 from a Corvette V-8 other than the visible goodies like valve covers, air cleaners and published data. So if the valve covers didn't say Corvette, no issue.

 

 

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Thanks to both Avanti83 and silverstude for the explanation. What a great Forum this is!

 

 

 

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With the emissions era, it behooved Newman - Altman , Blake, Kelly And Cafaro to use the GM engines that had already passed government emissions tests.  The end of the old Lark frame era  was brought about by worn out dies and government crash test regulations. After the Blake bankrupcy, Kelly needed a chassis, so the El Camino and Monte Carlo's were purchased from dealers, disassembled and all tin was sold off. The frames, engines,wiring harnesses,instrament panels and exhaust were modified for the 87 thru 88 models.   The 89 thru 91 models were based on the Caprice Classic. The 3 AVX's and later models based on the Firebird and Camaro. The last models 2004 thru 2007 were based on Mustang coupe and convertibles.   Lou Cote

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16 hours ago, silverstude said:

 

Roughly;

66-69 Avanti II used Corvette 327/300 engines / 70 - 71 used the 350/300 (Corvette) engine, 72 - 77 used the 400 (non Corvette) engine  - 78 -? used 350/? -  somewhere around  the early 80's the 305 engine came into play, both HO and standard version.  The 305 was used extensively afterwards.. 

According to the SBC sites, the numbers on my '78 identify the engine as an L-48 which is a 350, originally used in Corvettes and Monte Carlos.  It has the finned aluminum valve covers, and the stainless ignition shielding as in the Corvette (the chrome air cleaner lid is aftermarket).

LC07.JPG

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The former owner of my '69 built RQA0330 told me he had the 350 motor rebuilt at 100,000 to replace the hi-compression pistons so he could use regular gas (back when hi test was hard to find).  What other features would this engine have had, other than hi top pistons and aluminum valve covers (compared to a 350 equipped chevy impala)?

Mike Sal 

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It was probably the 300 hp 350 with 10.25 compression. It was the second lowest HP 350 available and was probably available in about any body style that Chevrolet built in that year. 

There were at least 2 higher HP iterations of the 350 and the selection of availability in some body styles probably was reduced with these, but recall, They would put most anything you wanted in about anything you wanted at this time if it was on the order sheet.

Same should apply if it was a 327.

 

Edited by Avanti83

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The Chevrolet based engines in the 1965 and 1966 Studebaker were built under license from GM by McKinnon Industries in Hamilton.

McKinnon was an independent engine builder and was a GM subsidiary later

They were supplying engines for the Canadian Pontiacs,Buicks etc.

Some GM experts called them "heavy duty "283's

Interesting article below

http://datsunforum.com/1571-2/

 

Edited by rbk

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50 minutes ago, rbk said:

The Chevrolet based engines in the 1965 and 1966 Studebaker were built under license from GM by McKinnon Industries in Hamilton.

McKinnon was an independent engine builder and was a GM subsidiary later

They were supplying engines for the Canadian Pontiacs,Buicks etc.

Some GM experts called them "heavy duty "283's

Interesting article below

http://datsunforum.com/1571-2/

Better do our homework.  McKinnon was a GM subsidiary from 1929 onward.  The 283"s used in Studebakers were identical in every way to those used in GM passenger cars in the US.  Absolutely nothing heavy duty about them.  Just the garden variety 2-bbl, single exhaust engine.

jack vines

Read it here:  http://hotrod.gregwapling.com/chevrolet/mckinnon.html

 

 

Quote

 

 

Edited by PackardV8

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Jack

A GM guy was looking at my 283 in a 1966 and told me because the head has two

notches , they were heavy duty.

He may have referred to just the heads and not the complete engine.

 

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If you are talking about referencing the casting marks on a 66 head, here is a guide to casting marks vs part numbers.

CastingMarkssbcheads.jpg

You can look up the numbers on Google and see what he was referring to in application, quality, performance and uniqueness. 

Edited by Avanti83

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15 hours ago, rbk said:

Jack

A GM guy was looking at my 283 in a 1966 and told me because the head has two notches, they were heavy duty.  He may have referred to just the heads and not the complete engine.

 

Again, there's nothing at all heavy duty about the heads used on '65-66 Stude 283"s.  They're just low-po Chevy heads.

jack vines

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My dad had two Anati II cars  model year `1970. The earlier 1970 had a 327. The later 1970 model had a 350

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That would be true as Avanti Motors used the 327 engine through the RQ-A series and changed to the 350 engine for the RQ-B models.  There may be some late RQ-A's with a 350 as the changeover would have happened regardless as GM was dropping the 327 anyway for the 350.  Avanti Motors purchased engines in lots to maximize discounts, and probably pulled engines for installation in no particular order, so it's entirely possible there was some mixed installations during that time.

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On ‎1‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 1:31 AM, dynolou2 said:

With the emissions era, it behooved Newman - Altman , Blake, Kelly And Cafaro to use the GM engines that had already passed government emissions tests.  The end of the old Lark frame era  was brought about by worn out dies and government crash test regulations. After the Blake bankrupcy, Kelly needed a chassis, so the El Camino and Monte Carlo's were purchased from dealers, disassembled and all tin was sold off. The frames, engines,wiring harnesses,instrament panels and exhaust were modified for the 87 thru 88 models.   The 89 thru 91 models were based on the Caprice Classic. The 3 AVX's and later models based on the Firebird and Camaro. The last models 2004 thru 2007 were based on Mustang coupe and convertibles.   Lou Cote

I don't remember El Caminos being used, only Monte Carlos (for 1987-1988).  I could be proven wrong on this by the VIN of the donor vehicle. 

2001-2004 were based on a Firebird.  2005-2007 were based on a Mustang (since we are talking engines, most were V8s and some were six cylinder).  .    .   

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As the El Camino and Monte Carlo share a very simular chassis, as a cost saving basis the El Camino may have been used.  I know I read it somewhere, probably in one of John Hull's books.  John ownes one of the 2005's with one of the 3.8 V/6's, I drove it on a parts run at Kansas City for Ted Andrews.   Lou Cote

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On 6/29/2017 at 4:26 AM, Gunslinger said:

That would be true as Avanti Motors used the 327 engine through the RQ-A series and changed to the 350 engine for the RQ-B models.  There may be some late RQ-A's with a 350 as the changeover would have happened regardless as GM was dropping the 327 anyway for the 350.  Avanti Motors purchased engines in lots to maximize discounts, and probably pulled engines for installation in no particular order, so it's entirely possible there was some mixed installations during that time.

My 1969 (RQ-A 0375) has the 350 engine with the finned Corvette heads.  The 350 is confirmed by the original build sheet.  Interesting note:  some of the forward fins had to be ground down on the left head in order for the alternator to fit!  I wonder if this is peculiar to my car or was a standard modification for this vintage Avanti with the 350 engine.

Edited by TED DIMON
mispelling

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My '70 RQB-1574 had the alternator on the right side of its 350.  There was no grinding of the fins on the valve cover.  Maybe your 350 had 327 brackets installed and that might have made such grinding needed.  They would probably have used a '69 wiring harness which may have necessitated it.  

When it came to Avanti Motors, nothing is really beyond possibility with how they did things or mixed parts to use what was on hand or next in line in the parts warehouse.  Sometimes I think it was up to the individual assembly person how some things were done.

Edited by Gunslinger

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14 hours ago, Gunslinger said:

My '70 RQB-1574 had the alternator on the right side of its 350.  There was no grinding of the fins on the valve cover.  Maybe your 350 had 327 brackets installed and that might have made such grinding needed.  They would probably have used a '69 wiring harness which may have necessitated it.  

When it came to Avanti Motors, nothing is really beyond possibility with how they did things or mixed parts to use what was on hand or next in line in the parts warehouse.  Sometimes I think it was up to the individual assembly person how some things were done.

My A/C compressor is on the right side, hence the left side location of the alternator.  Do you remember where your A/C compressor was located?

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The compressor on my car when I purchased it was more or less centered over the front of the engine.  It was the old York type compressor and a heavy bracket it was mounted on to clear the hood line.  The left side was taken up by the radiator expansion tank and hoses.  The car has a crate engine now a and serpentine belt system.  The alternator is on the left and the a/c compressor is on the right side.

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My 70' (RQA-0381) had the valve cover ground down for the Alternator also...

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If the grinding was done carefully it puts Avanti Motors ahead of GM.  On '65-'67 Corvettes with a big-black engine the brake booster hit the left valve cover.  Chevrolet solved it by simply pounding a dent on that corner of the valve cover for clearance.  Not exactly an elegant solution but it solved the problem.

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Some 1970 RQAs had 350s, but I do not believe that any 1970 RQBs had 327s.  

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I just ran across what appears to be something on the order of a window sticker (or invoice) for my RQA 0330.  The list of "standard equipment" mentions "350cu. in. Stingray Engine", but no code number.  I also have the build sheet (September '69) which also only says "350 cu. in. Engine".  The engine number listed at the top portion of the build sheet shows number V09078BQ (I think the first digit is a V.....it's hand written on the form).

Mike Sal

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